August 9, 2010
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Was Slavery Good For Black People?
Two years ago on August 9, 2008, Michael Dingwall, a Black columnist from The Jamaican Observer wrote an article titled ‘Slavery was good for the black man’: LINK
It caused a bit of a stir and was eventually taken down. The article however is still available on the Internet Archive: LINK | SCREENSHOT
In ‘Slavery was good for the black man’, Michael Dingwall asks: “Have we ever stopped to consider where we black people, especially those of us in the West, would be right now if it weren’t for the Atlantic Slave Trade? What state do you think black Africa would be in today? Do you think that we would have been better off without slavery? I don’t think so!”
Below are some of the highlights he uses to further prove his point:
- “When the Europeans went to Africa to buy slaves, what did they find? They found a society and people vastly inferior to theirs.”
- “While the Europeans had emerged from their feudal practices, our ancestors in Africa, for the most part, had not developed for many centuries.”
- “We did not understand the concept of nation or government.”
- “Science and technology (and innovations in these areas) were non-existent in black Africa of the 15th and 16th centuries.”
- “It is through this “most heinous system ever created” that we blacks were able to understand some of the principles of global trade.”
- “In doing this, we discarded those aspects of our culture that clearly placed us at a disadvantage - like our lack of sense of self, loyalty to the tribe and our non-participation in modern technology.”
- “Back in Africa, we were preoccupied with the worship of animals, trees, spirits of the dead - even stones.”
- “The relatively superior Christianity, with its greater sense of order and responsibility would help, in many ways, to pull the black man out of the Stone Age.”
Michael Dingwall ends his article with this conclusion: “Indeed, based on what is happening in black Africa today - slavery for us in the West was, in many respects, our salvation.”
Reader, did Black people benefit from the slave trade? Would Africa or the African race still thrive without the oppression from Caucasians? Was it their salvation from a backwards culture of worshipping “animals, trees, spirits of the dead - even stones”? Was Michael Dingwall is a racist? Did his article deserve to be censored?
Comments (55)
White people screwed up Africa.
I believe this man is entitled to his opinion.
Yeah just like my ancestors benefited from being slaughtered and enslaved by the Romans, then the English.
I am sure it helped the survivors become much stronger. But I hope they understand me and all of my kin showing no gratitude at all over it..
I never thought about it that way, interesting point he brings up!
and I mean, Africa for the most part is behind the rest of the world still. it's crazy.
haha seems like bringing this up again is gona stir up some drama Ricky
In all honesty I dont think slavery = salvation. That is just wrong. But the author did point out some critical points.
But like in all disasters -- we human learn from our mistakes.
We are constantly improving ourselves.
We might not be able to fix the past but we can improve the future and make it a brighter place to live.
If we ask our ancestors about the war, tragedy, and slavery they had to go through was it worth it for the outcome for today?
Who knows...
It is intrinsically evil to do evil even if the purpose of the evil act is to cause a good result. Lot was wrong, this man is wrong. His argument is that the ends justified the means, which is, generally, an argument used to support evil.
it's attention-getting to call it that. he should have titled it, ' the benefits of relocation of the negro race: finding light in darkness.'
that article is bad because it places africans in the hands of superior instead of chance. the reasons that some of africa is behind are more complicated than escape.
i like the way babylonians did slavery.
sorry, my keyboard is messed up. excuse the 'errors.'
no . it only made them bitter & angry . & you can nottt blame them .
I don't think this should be a post about just black men; there are other types of slavery out there, like forced prostitution.
In general, slavery isn't good at all. Look at the outcome: now there's racist talk and then some people still believe in affirmative action. It's just a mess, but it's bound to happen since a lot of people have a superiority complex.
@nylondare - people are like that anyway. we all have to fight to be free of something.
You can almost find a silver lining in the worst of tragedies, doesn't justify it.
Although that is a really different take on that. Interesting.
i do not think any act of treating any race, colour, religon, and etc inhuman is good! this guy who thinks slavery was good didn't have to live back then so he has no clue what he's talking about! nuff said
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hitler only wanted to preserve his race for the future. Al-Qaeda and the Taliban only wants to be heard and understood. Ricky just because someone wrote this brainwashed propaganda doesn't mean you have to repost it for negative attention. You have a minority class fixation and it mostly seems to be geared towards black men. Freud once stated that when you have a deep wanting for something and can't attain it, you find ways to demean it. I can only assume you have an unfulfilled urge when you keep posting shit like this!
The man who wrote that article is a complete moron. We honestly cannot say how Africa would have developed if the Europeans had not come and taken slaves. What a simplistic way of looking at history!
No form of slavery is ever good. The Africans were content back in the day living their lives as they did. Life was simple they liked it. Its like saying Native Americans deserved to be slaughtered because their values did not agree with the Western values. Either way, I do not think slavery was good for anyone. I might get s**t for saying this, but slavery wasnt good for white men either. I, in many cases had to deal with the black americans them treating me like I owe them something because 150 years ago their ancestors were slaves. Sorry, I am not even from this country, 150 yrs ago my country was under serfdom to the Russians. Bite me. So I think slavery created alot of animosity between people, although everyone tries to pretend its not there, and we are in the new world now, its still there. And who to say, that the Africans did not enjoy their simple life, where they had free will?
Some people come up with interesting theories, I think.
@trunthepaige - Really? Your ancestors were? That almost makes me proud of my British ancestors
Obviously slavery is bad.....exchanging ideas is good, slavery is bad.
I'm kind of gonna have to go with slavery was bad, too. I mean, sure, it eventually worked out for some black people, but because of the racial tensions, there have been how many civil wars and genocides in Africa? Also, I'm pretty sure rape, which is one of the main causes of the rapid spreading of HIV in Africa, is a western invention. Disease they dealt with fine before white people showed up. Sure, people died from some things and the life expectancy was lower, but you never heard anyone complaining. People in so-called 3rd world countries seem to be happier with their lives than we are (well, the ones that don't have wars with weapons that were introduced by us, anyway...)
Why would they censor the article? The article, like everything else (including Xanga), is free speech and freedom of press.
@darkangel6541 - in many cases freedom of press only applies to things that people want to hear...when someone has a different opinion from others..ussually it is scratched. Take Miss California for example and when Perez Hilton asked her a question about gay marriage she gave her opinion. Then that same Perez Hilton went on to trash her, call her a bitch, a dumb person and so on and so forth...just because her opinion did not coincide with his. That is freedom of speech in our country. We have it when the masses agree, we loose it when masses disagree. Period.
Who are you? LOLZ. I'm just so confused as to how I know you.
Michael Dingwall should pick cotton for a week and then tell me how he feels.
@darkangel6541 - @uadreamybabe - I'm grateful for blog sites that let anyone with something to say say it, but on your personal site hosted by them. But news sites can't, they have to focus on articles that keep readers coming back to their site and disassociate with views that could make them lose. They don't have much choice, regardless their revenue model.
@jasonwl - exactly my point. Freedom of speech is only when masses agree. When masses disagree you are either shunned for sharing something that no one believes in or you change your point of you and join the masses.
@AvenueToTheReal - Word.
@my_little_niche - Check it.
no one benefited from the slave trade. It wreaked havoc on an entire continent of people (and this is just the slavery we commonly refer to, but really, it has drained every continent, because illegal slavery still exists everywhere), it is an enduring symbol of humanity's ability to completely disassociate ourselves from others to the point of not considering them people, and it led to centuries of still continuing discrimination and prejudice and hate.
My mom used to try to flow this argument- she would justify some slavery because "It worked out well for most of them, most slaves were treated well, and some slaves even stayed where they were after they were freed." But really, where did this information come from? Ah yes, bigoted white people. Or my relatives say it's like "what happened to our relatives, the irish and the italian." No, not really. They weren't slaves, and we are white so the discrimination stayed within a few generations. People who perpetuate skin discrimination in any way disgust me. There is no basis for discrimination.
also i guess i completely forgot to address the post because hopefully everyone understands that he is feeding a pack of lies and it is patronizing of me to assume anyone wouldn't know, BUT
the idea that africa was a bunch of people in huts before the european invasion is a complete myth. Africa had advanced technology, roads, trading that extended from coast to coast, engineering, houses and very large buildings (I don't know if it is accurate to say palaces, but the equivalent), multiple languages, math, diverse and rich culture, and science. The perpetuation of this myth unfortunately allows some people to erase discomfort they might feel over the invasion and consequential pillage and deconstruction of Africa. Because we were bringing them "culture." Ha. Please.
There were many religions in Africa, just as there are any religions anywhere. Even IF a religion did nothing but worship stones, who is to judge? the essence of most religions is to believe the otherwise unbelievable. I happen to think that a God-son born of a human and a God is no more or less crazy sounding than appreciation for the natural environment.
@uadreamybabe - "One cannot determine the validity of evidence by taking an arbitrary vote."- Not saying I agree with Mr. Dingwall. But I reserve disagreement just as well.
I think everything happens for a reason.. We wouldn't have Martin Luther King Jr. or Rosa Parks without the whole slave thing.
Honestly, though, I really respect African Americans, black people.. whichever sounds less vulgar. They certainly have come a long way compared to white people. A long, far way. Lightyears... haha.
P.S Thanks for talking about something that really matters.
Um. I'm not black, so I obviously can't say I concur with this.
But it makes sense. Slavery was obviously not the optimal option, but Africa has never really awoken out of her slumber, so to speak. Frankly, I'd have liked to escape. No one would choose slavery, but it was one way of escaping.
It certainly led to a MUCH better life, comparatively, for future generations.
This should have never been published , as well as this blog.
Yeah--kinda like the lady who filches your food teaches you about hygene. Or the guys who pistolwhipped me taught me to be more attentive in a bad neighborhood. I'm ever so grateful.
@WritingPassion - The people had a healty culture, a healthy agrian economy, and an understanding of Islam--certainly not animism.
The movie "Amistad" gives a good portrayal of all the good we did them.
@msimotion - Our man has done us a service. Let the darkness be exposed in all it's foul deception.
@ScarletMoth - tell it loud.
Africa is a beautiful continent, but that's just it, it's a continent,
within Africa are countries, some countries are beautiful some are 3
world. Not all of Africa is 3rd world.
On another note, slavery made black people not like whites, but after
slavery if things were different. If white people tried to help blacks,
told blacks that they were beautiful. If white people gave blacks the
same opportunities for educations, instead of thinking they were the
black plague and having such great separations, I think the world would
have been different now. I think the relations between black and white
people would have become better. I think I kind of understand black
people. They were brought over to America and abused, used for hard
labor, for 400 years. Blacks from all across Africa, blacks of
different countries and totally different cultures. Some where forced
to have sex with others. They had a totally loss of culture. There were
from completely different counties in Africa, and they lost their
language, their customs, their history, their identity of who they
were, they lost everything. I can see how blacks are the way they are
now. Although everyone can change, but 400 years of slavery behind
them...that's a hard thing to erase. 400 years of slavery behind them
is a hard thing to grow from, but I can see how strong they have to be
to even live in this county. They are and it seems like will always be
judged by their skin. I never really got it before. I never really
understood it. But I really don't think most black girls in America
think they are beautiful. Media tells them in order to be beautiful
they have to fit the standard, and unforunately the standard doesn't
fit every race and culture. But I think they are very beautiful. Wow,
to have no culture, no true identity. Even white people today can trace
their family back thousands of years. I don't pitty the black people
because I don't think they want pitty. I think they just want equality.
Unforunately now, I think we need better schools in the poorer areas to
educate the youth there. We need programs for the young kids, so they
will know they are worth it. We need to tell them that they can do
anything if they set their mind to it. We have to tell them about the
great inventors.
I sometimes think, to be black is a curse. It's something you can't
change. People will always look and judge first. Subconciously judging
you. But I guess that is what makes black people strong.
I think that is why so many black people who rise up and are known in
America are so strong. I'm talking about people who were actually born
in America. I'm not talking about our Kenyan president obama who was
born in kenya. I talking about people who have history in America and
whose ancestors build America's economy.
wow that was long...lol
@ShimmerBodyCream - That's not entirely true. When we went to Africa we simply bought Africans that were already enslaved by other Africans.
The truth of the matter is, it is not just the Black people who were affected. You cannot forget the Native Americans who were also enslaved, beaten, and pushed west by the White people.
There are SO many things to disprove the statements made by Michael Dingwit but I'm not glorifying his racism with a response. Just because a society is different doesnt mean it's inferior.
There are other types of slavery & hate that are wrong too & the ends dont justify the means. What about the Holocaust? The Armenian Genocide? Can someone find a "good thing" in those? Hell no!
the article is a very ignorant - it seems as if they haven't even had a basic social anthropology class. i don't think this is even something to talk about, it's just bs. I think it's a damn shame that he said "slavery was good" because all this "educating Africa" shit could've been done in a way that didn't involve the vast amounts of senseless deaths and inhumanity. these types of statements make it clear that he doesn't care about the individuals that had to actually live through slave conditions. slavery did not NEED to happen, slavery wasn't the best way to go about gaining all those "advantages" he talked about, and his article just honestly enraged me
@ScarletMoth - I am with you.
All right, Ricky. He can have his opinion, and he can go uncensored, but it should be understood that one is really ignorant of actual history if they agree with him.
The largest man-made structure in the world. The Songhai Empire. The Mali Empire. The Ashanti/Asante Empire. The city of Great Zimbabwe, whose existence was concealed by the white supremacist colonial government for decades. Any of the sub-articles branching from this one.
And of course, the Pulitzer Prize-earning research contained in this book, which puts to rest such absurd notions of superiority.
And for a literary perspective on the absurdity of such ideas, check out the works of the author Chinua Achebe, especially Things Fall Apart and An Image of Africa: Racism in Conrad's "Heart of Darkness".
I don't think anything should be censored. Even you Ricky. lol
@TruthOfRain - I was referring to colonialism.
P.S. The article never "proved" any point. It made a lot of baseless assertions and did not back any of them up with historical research, cultural data, or sociology. It was empty rhetoric, and not effective.
So are we saying the ends justify the means?
I don't believe this is so.
That's the same mind set as saying bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was okay because it helped end WW2.
Something atrocious only begets more atrocity.
Only through time can real healing and salvation be achieved.
Well, the english didn't do much for anyone. But I think that the people of dark colored skin origin, which is in us all, btw. I think they got preatty damn well endowed! And for some reason didn't get rembersed for their mistreatment like the indians did. BUUUT I guess that's because we totally stole everything from them and slaughtered them for no reason. And we kinds just kidnapped the blacks and were like- "hey guess what, you're comin with us!!"
I blame Christoper Columbus whole heartedly.
yup.
@trunthepaige - Your ancestors are a completely different story. They were civilized and didn't require other races to upgrade their technologies.
i think that while this guy is entitled to his opinion, he is not a racist, and slavery wasn't the 'salvation' of black people. how can something so evil and cruel save people? i don't think he sounded racist, it's just his opinion. but i think it's wrong.
@DearRicky - Some of them were cannibalistic and they believed in human sacrifice to appease the Gods. In their first battle with the Romans they defeated an entire Roman Legion and left not a single survivor while doing so. They barbarically and typically tore the chests open (by hand) of all the men they had wounded during combat. Latter, after the victory, they killed all healthy survivors as well. Doing so in many less than humane ways.
But yes when the English came, the Scots were as civilized as anyone was at that time.
@trunthepaige - Exactly, while Africa was still in the stone age, lol.
Is slavery good for any race? No. Jabba The Hutt tried to make Princess Leia his slave in Star Wars. The giant toad croaked his last when she wrapped her slave chain around his throat.
@darkangel6541 - Most (notice I did not say all) of Africa's civil wars and genocides are between differing tribes or blacks and arabs. The racial tension was already there long before whites showed up. Whites just took advantage of it.
"I'm pretty sure rape, which is one of the main causes of the rapid spreading of HIV in Africa, is a western invention."
That was the most retarded thing I have ever seen on the internet. Congratulations.
I understand that this man is entitled to his opinion, but I just wanted to make a comment about "inferior cultures"
Just because another culture worships the earth instead of a man that may or may not have existed and a book, does not mean that eiyher culture is inferior or superior.
I also find it interesting that dingwall is against a loyalty to one's group. Modern business, education, religious and other philosophies are all about teambuilding and putting the group before the individual because studies show it is more effective. Instead of invading Africa and the other European colonies, if Europe had tried to learn from collectivistic cultures in order to respect the earth and one another, we might not have the problems we have today.
In terms of the freedom of speech comments, I'm split. perhaps the article should not have been taken down because it causes a stir and for the most part, I see it reinforces contrasting opinions.
I'd want to say this situation boils down to one thing in the end: As a black person, would you prefer living in America -right now, as is-, or Africa -right now, as is-? We can't go off of any speculation because we have no idea what would have happened.
It's not so easy of a question to answer. Sure slavery is terrible, but the black men who sold their own people to us felt they would lead better lives. He told them, "Show them God." And while it took a long time for that to happen to -all of them- (remember, not all slave owners were cruel, some were quite nice) It -did- happen eventually. I live in Louisiana, which was one of the most racist areas in the US, and it seems to have almost completely dissipated itself before my eyes over the years.
I'll be a very happy person when the black population can finally take the load of this grudge off of their shoulders and live happily, regardless.
i think this guy has a brilliant point, there would be more people in africa if slaves weren't sold over to america, so more people without food more people with disease, ya slavery is not fun in anyway but go over to africa is that anyway to live? NO! there are kids the age of 12 and younger taking care of there siblings cause there parents are dead of disease! i would rather have a whip to my back then to slowly die and watch my love ones die. Really neither was good to any one of those people at the time but we have to look whats good for the human race! everyone looks at the smaller picture, not the big. We helped another race in the human species develop into something greater then what they were, not that we are all perfect we always have developing to do. It's a constant and americans actually are blind to that, we stay in our niche because it's what we know we never try to look at things as the human race it's divided, white people, black, mexican, etc. we all do it, every race is discriminated against by another but instead of being mature beings we put the blame on another..but then again who are we to say whats right? true knowledge is understanding we don't know anything, we just interpret what we see and come to a conclusion out of our own perspective. Why choose a side? there is right and wrong in everything, no one person or a group of people can say this is right and this is wrong cause it's different for everyone, in a way the people who say certain people are wrong they are wrong themselves.
@SHmeEPeh - You are a truely intelligent person lol people could learn from you
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